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hornygamer "chan jab" "allison stokke nude" cherrynudes "trailer park sluts "julie london nude" "jabcomix chan" "e rouge the bat" "lyndsy fonseca. JabComix; Welcomix; CrazyXXX3Dworld; Velamma Comics; Savita Bhabhi (Kirtu​) · Tabu Porno Seiten. 11+. IncestFlix; Motherless Incest; Pornhub Incest. ArchiveofSins · 7Chan · Mewch · TheBArchive · BBW-Chan · 4Chan · Ichan · Chan Beste Comic-Paysites · Welcomix · CrazyXXX3DWorld · JabComix. The real absurdity is in people demanding sources from 4chan, then Junge frau mit dicken titten out 4chan as a source. Pedobear is commonly found on 4chan drooling. Stop wasting time and space talking Mature muscle girl himand go talk to other people. Damn, got me there, they do it every Bilatinmen favorite list Isn't it Fuck site to show that it is a widely disseminated meme on 4chan?

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I bow to you Lords and Ladies!! Your argument has shifted. Before you said that Pedobear is purely an ironic, jocular symbol.

Now you're admitting that it is posted in CP threads, but that the number of times it is used jokingly far outweighs the number of times it accompanies kiddie porn.

For my part, I have never claimed that Pedobear is posted the majority of time in kiddie porn threads. I've simply said that it is often posted in such threads.

I believe I have won this debate because you have come around to admitting my central claim: that Pedobear is indeed posted in CP threads on 4chan.

As soon as you have discovered an algorithm that can track the thousands of threads on 4chan and the quantity and nature of pedobear postings, I don't believe your above request for proof is feasible.

This debate about Pedobear doesn't even touch on the fact that 4chan is extremely racist, that it is a place for posting random people's phone numbers so that they can be harassed, etc.

Should every one of them be mentioned as well? Certainly, under your logic, they should. There is no sense in calling attention to a single "meme" simply because of it's name.

You should also mention the "Success kid" and "Chris Hansen" meme, as well, since they both have a link to child pornography.

Why not "Socially awkward penguin" and various "Pokedads"? I've seen some of those with CP humor in them. Why not "Boxxy", "Courage Wolf", etc?

I could go on and on. If you want to mention Pedobear and make the false comment that it is " one of the most popular meme s ", you damn well better come up with some reliable and solid sources, of which you've failed to do.

You'd be better off making a blog and spreading your propaganda there. CP exists. Pedobear exists. Neither exist because of the other.

Which came first, do you know? Pedobear could have been created as a concept, an idea Re: Racism - What does that have to do with this topic?

Are you reaching for more ammo to try and back up your arguement? Strawman does NOT work here. Ever read the intro to it?

The part where only an idiot would take anything posted there as fact? I've said that it's posted in CP threads. Amazingly, you have admitted this and you're still arguing.

Yes, there are hundreds of memes, but pedobear was invented on 4chan and it is being widely merchandised ; every attempt I've made to mention it on Wikipedia has been censored.

Pedobear is the most germane to those threads. It's a hard-core place, and the Wikipedia article doesn't reflect that. You have already admitted that pedobear is posted in CP threads, so I don't know what we're discussing.

Funnily enough, just for stating the facts about Pedobear and providing a citation, I have been threatened with a ban by someone named the King.

It is not my job to police the Internet, but neither is it your job to police Wikipedia. For now, I will not repost any mention of Pedobear in the article, for it would be futile, but I would like it to be noted by Wikipedia users that I have been censored.

It is linked to by www. You continue to try and pass off falsehoods as facts. This is your opinion, and it cannot be cited as fact.

If the article doesn't have a piece of "hard-core" feel to it, you aren't obligated to seek out random bits of information that aren't true.

Pedobear is posted in CP threads less than it's posted in any other thread, that's the point. I don't get paid for that job, but I'd like for people to not be misinformed.

Yep, your non-facts sure are being censored, as they should be. Here you go. Out of hundreds of millions of websites on the Internet, pedobear.

It's linked to by boyloverlinks. You have conceded that it's posted in 4chan's CP threads. So what are we debating? And where is the 'joke' when a drooling or panting pedobear is posted in a thread with actual child pornography?

Thank you for admitting that pedobear is occasionally posted in such CP threads. Thanks also for admitting that I'm being censored.

You have still not shown where I was misinformed or false, but you have happily and brashly demonstrated that you are a censor.

You said: "Pedobear is posted in CP threads less than it's posted in any other thread, that's the point. There are lots of popular memes on 4chan.

I would venture to guess that some are posted far more than Pedobear. And just as a meme about a cartoon dog would be linked to by a dog-lover website, Pedobear probably attracts some less-than-reputable fans.

MOST of the time that it is posted, it is not in a "CP" thread, or causing 4chan to in your words "basically mainstream internet pedophilia.

Then, your comment: " You're claiming it has reached such a popularity that it is an "unofficial emblem" of a random message board is silly!

I'll play your game: Pedobear - k results on Google. Boxxy - 1. Courage Dog - 1. Any "results" you provide are flawed, as much as mine will be using your methods.

Why would the news report on something they can't prove? Damn, got me there, they do it every day You're jumping to so many conclusions.

And no, I have no solid proof, it's impossible to prove. More of a common sense thing that any visitor of 4chan would come up with. Your comments also lead me to believe you've never even visitted 4chan.

Do you even know what Pedobear is based off of? It's real, and of course, it's Japanese. I don't have the info on me, and I'm not going to take a chance on 4chan while I'm at work, but it's not something a user just drew up one day.

It has a backstory, and if one person threw out the name "pedobear" We're supposed to trust the "common sense thing" of a 4chan user.

For the record, I've visited 4chan many times, notwithstanding your belief that I haven't. A drooling pedobear? I said Pedobear is an unofficial emblem because it appears in one of 4chan's official banner ads.

If I was mistaken about the meaning of in b4 , I apologize. The fact remains that people on 4chan boast of getting to the CP before it's deleted.

To reiterate, you've conceded pedobear is posted with actual child pornography on 4chan. Is that worth noting on Wikipedia?

Finally, I think it's fair to say 4chan is helping mainstream internet pedophilia when pedobear is printed on t-shirts at a factory and apparently sold to interested boy lovers.

Seeing where it is and where it isn't. Seeing it is the only proof anyone has, and if you truly think I'm wrong, then please help me out.

Rather than rehash what I say three times now and consider the arguement over, please prove what I say is wrong? Pedobear is posted more often in non-CP threads than in CP threads - I am willing to stand by that as a fact, but I cannot provide proof because it's impossible to do in writing, and a "random" board is impossible to cite.

Again, show me where I'm wrong. Also, congrats for showng 2 out of 2 billion renditions of a single image. I could photoshop a picture of a US Senator having relations with a dog As much as one person's rendition of a single image, as you so kindly linked to.

Site rankings are meaningless, and I responded with two examples of where they don't apply, so yes, I did respond. Again, it appears on a banner - Along with tons of other memes.

Are you seeing my point yet? You are shining this light on a single meme without considering the millions of other ones. I didn't "concede" anything.

It's posted with CP just like a picture of a dog, a horse, or a picture of you may be posted with CP. It's irrelevant!

Captain Picard is probably posted with it, too! Concluding that Pedobear is one of the most popular memes on a random message board will require verifiability by providing reliable sources , of which will be immediately disputed as I have done that the notability is worthy of being posted.

Even mentioning it in passing as I suggested earlier would be silly as this is not a repository for every meme in existence, no matter how many t-shirts are made.

Let me. A few posts ago you quoted me about pedobear and said this: "'It is posted with actual child porn' - False. Subsequently you have admitted that pedobear appears in child pornography threads.

You've also said that I've never visited 4chan. That's false. I was on there yesterday, and I have been on many times. You questioned whether there was a drooling or panting pedobear.

I furnished you with examples of both. You said, "site ranking are meaningless. This debate is over because you have already conceded my central point.

Pedobear is posted in child pornography threads. Though you denied it at first, you and I now agree on this point. Penneth talk , 10 August UTC You can twist my words all you want to fit your point, but you're still wrong.

I said it appears in CP threads just like any other meme or image. It appears, just as Boxxy appears, just as Courage Dog appears.

It's not necessarily linked to CP threads, but it appears in them just like any other image. Your image examples were just the worst examples you could think of to fit your "negative image of pedobear" arguement.

Most images are of Pedobear "running" in a certain direction. What you provide doesn't matter, because like I said, there are thousands of versions of any picture you can bring up.

Like I said before, I can modify a picture to look like whatever I want, but it holds no weight to the arguement, because they are just at the whim of a single person's creativity.

I conceded nothing, because the fact that pedobear appears in CP threads means nothing because there's no proof or citation or source saying that it is exclusive to CP threads.

I quoted you verbatim! The appearance of a pedophilic bear in pedophilic image threads is noteworthy. I did not modify any picture.

Pedobear is commonly found on 4chan drooling. It doesn't have to be exclusive to CP threads to be noteworthy.

I am finished with you. You cannot cite or prove the notability of a single meme, and claim it has a significant meaning.

There are far more controversial memes that exist, but you fail to acknowledge their existence, because all you wish to focus on is this single one.

Pedobear is an image, and is used in ways far beyond "CP threads", and you fail to see that. A "know your meme" website as a citation does not carry notability or reason, and will likely be removed.

The intentions of putting it in the article, too, carry little to no notability, and absolutely no verifiability. You wish to spread false information, so be it, but you know the rules of Wikipedia.

Your internet "White Knight" attitude of "I'm finished with you" says a lot about your character and your unwillingness to address the facts and see the other side.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC Debate aside, I would like to introduce a sentence in the introductory paragraph that reads: "Pedobear is a popular meme on 4chan.

Again, bring up every single controversial "meme" if you plan to add that line. Shii tock , 11 August UTC As has been said before, there are no mainstream sources on Pedobear because nobody is brave enough to mention it.

I will keep searching. Your comments are dripping with a conflict of interest! Again, just because you WANT something to be true, doesn't mean that it is!

You're trying to use images posted by 'anonymous and random people' as a justification? There's no way to prove that you aren't the one posting those images.

Plausible deniability, and your personal conflict of interest has an effect on everything you say. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC There is no way I could've posted all of those pictures because 4chan has flood control.

Moderators, please note that this individual has already suspected me of never having been to 4chan. Now this individual is alleging that I am on 4chan posting dozens of pictures of Pedobear, pornography and gore simply to fabricate a case.

I'm getting tired of these accusations, let alone of responding to them. For now, it's off to work. With no source, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Pedobear isn't going into the article, and neither are Advice Dog, Happy Negro, or anything else you can name that haven't been reported on , regardless of whatever notability YOU have ascribed to them.

Of course it exists. But there is no source of notability when compared to any other meme. There is no way to prove that you have not posted those images on your own, or people you know posting them on your behalf.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC 4chan has flood control and in any case I have not posted a single one of them. It is paranoid to suggest that I've rounded up my friends to post extremely violent and sexual images on that board so as to prove an esoteric point on a Wikipedia forum.

Your arguments are becoming flimsier and flimsier. It is unverifiable. You know this. If you really want to make that your goal, be sure to collect statistics for every other popular meme, where they are, and how many more of them there are than Pedobear.

Either way, 4chan is not a reliable source of statistics, as you cannot possibly see every thread created or every post made, or refer back to it, or prove it's verifiability, or prove it is not Original Research, or provide more sources to it's validity, or provide a reason that Pedobear is notable enough to deserve insertion to the article with the biased undertone of CP.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC So you say I should go on 4chan and collect statistic on every possible meme which is impossible!

And then you say that statistics about 4chan are invalid anyway. Semantics - See below on why you're out of line on this comment as well.

No one denied Pedobear's existence. Stay on topic. By your current logic, there needs to be inclusion of every other meme that exists and is proven to exist outside of 4chan.

And I don't mean they don't mention it as Pedobear's birthplace. They don't mention it at all. It is notable because it has appeared in a Pat Buchanan column with a picture of Obama.

Again, one person's opinion. Journalists will reach for whatever they can to make a "story", and if I photoshop a picture of your president with Courage Dog, and it gets posted on the internet, that doesn't make it notable.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC It is notable because a former Republican presidential candidate and syndicated columnist, for no apparent reason, posted an image of Obama with pedobear in a column.

This was mentioned in Wonkette, whose related blog, Gawker, is cited in this Wikipedia entry. Someone named King maintains that this is proof of nothing because the Wonkette links don't mention 4chan, but it is a common sense fact that 4chan is the main "romping ground" for the pedobear meme.

In any case, since I'm a journalist myself, I will just have to write a national article on Pedobear's presence on 4chan. You're good at that.

That line was referring directly to your comment: "You said: "Pedobear is posted in CP threads less than it's posted in any other thread, that's the point.

I simply wanted you, personally, to go there and watch and see how wrong you are. So, when you're done bringing back your weeklong data, please prove that most Pedobear images were shown in CP threads.

Sources, citations, verifiable information, etc. You can provide none of that. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC "I simply wanted you, personally, to go there and watch and see how wrong you are.

So how exactly did I find out how wrong I am? We're not stopping you from attempting to legitimately add Pedobear to this article.

We're stopping you from adding it in spite of wikipedia policy and the inclusion guidelines. The real absurdity is in people demanding sources from 4chan, then ruling out 4chan as a source.

It is true. I certainly hope you aren't claiming I said that. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC Since the above quote was not signed as per the rules, and since it contains numerous caps locked sentences, which is your specialty, I did assume it was you.

But I apologize if it wasn't. Here's the truth: Pedobear is a meme, one of thousands. It's mere existence does not prove to be notable enough for inclusion, nor is it "mainstreaming internet pedophelia".

Unfortunately, 4chan is not a verifiable or reliable source to assertain any solid information on the cause, existence, or result of the Pedobear cartoon.

The inclusion to the article is difficult because, while it's notability is suspect, doing so would set a precidence for including other memes that may carry even stronger "controversy".

Can we at least agree on this? Is this the prelude to a ban? I will not agree with you about "precidence" [sic].

And the "mainstreaming Internet pedophilia" comment is moot because I never said such a thing in the Wikipedia article, where I merely stated that Pedobear is a popular meme on 4chan true: it's in the official banner ads, unlike any other meme and that it is posted in CP threads true: you yourself agree.

Also, I will reiterate my question to you, starting with a quote from you. Stating that you mentioning the rule of signing comments is hypocritical.

You said it in your comments above, and it is false. You tried to reinforce your claim about Pedobear with "4chan is extremely popular worldwide, but no one wants to touch the fact that it basically is mainstreaming internet pedophilia.

I said numerous times that it is not exclusive to CP threads, nor is it the only thing posted. There may have been CP threads that didn't have a single Pedobear image!

You don't know this, I don't know this, it's absolutely unverifiable. Courage dog is posted in CP threads, we need to include an article about that, too.

Oh, and every single other image ever that has been in a CP thread. Pedobear is a meme, meme's are in 4chan and numerous other raunchy websites , so of course you're going to see them on 4chan.

Want a medal or cookie or some sort of pat on the back? How does that make it worth including? Again, I ask, does that mean every other meme I see on 4chan should be included?

It's all over that thread. Though you can dispute the credibility of the "Know Your Meme" itself, the information contained there is accurate.

Pedobear is based on a Japanese bear called Kuma, a picture of which is available at the Know Your Meme link. No way to prove that at all.

Could have been created at 2chan, ebaums, or some random guy in their basement. Isn't it enough to show that it is a widely disseminated meme on 4chan?

Anyone who don't see this is blind. Also, it should be mentioned the vast amount of CP that is posted at midnight on B. And 4chan isn't legit either because But the continual and frequent posting of pedobear on 4chan, including in threads that I have documented, is not a common sense connection between 4chan and Pedobear.

Makes sense, thanks. The fact that it's a meme is irrelevent, because it's only one meme out of thousands.

As King says, your only go-to source isn't a valid source. Your intent to add this to the article is very strong - What's the reason? What are you trying to prove?

If there was some actual informative and notable point to saying that Pedobear is a meme on 4chan and other websites , without mentioning the hundreds and thousands of other memes Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC Pedobear is notable because it is a symbol of pedophilia and it is used in criminal child pornography threads on 4chan.

No, the posting of Pedobear in such threads is not random, as I have demonstrated in the previously linked-to thread, where there were at least 18 pedobears mixed up with dismembered limbs, insect impregnation pornography, and cartoon child pornography.

There were no other memes posted in that thread. After challenging me to go to 4chan in search of examples of pedobear's use, you dismissed this example and all but accused me of fabricating evidence after having accused me of never visiting 4chan, a claim you never retracted or apologized for.

In other words, you wanted evidence from 4chan; I gave it to you; you dismissed 4chan as a source of evidence.

Your reasoning is twisted, your argumentation circular. Pedobear is also notable because it has been reported on in Wonkette and other news blogs after an image of Pedobear inexplicably appeared next to Obama in a column by a former Republican presidential candidate and intellectual leader of the conservatives.

Why are the other memes, like lolcats, mentioned if they are but one of thousands? I would like an explanation on that score.

A single thread does not represent the past however many years of 4chan. I said there's no evidence to state that you couldn't have done that.

That is one of the million reasons 4chan is not a reliable source. It's anonymous and random. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC "Why are the other memes, like lolcats, mentioned if they are but one of thousands?

Once again, over before it started. Go back to ED. It's common sense and common knowledge. Unless you want to make the case that the majority of people on this planet frequent 4chan.

We're not writing this article for us. Yep, sounds reliable and iron-clad. The misspellings in the article make it even more reliable.

Gpia7r talk , 12 August UTC You can characterize it however you like, but in that link Pedobear is called a 4chan meme.

There are no misspellings to my eye. Or are you objecting to the two Ls in Lolli and the use of an ellipsis and an "er"?

None are incorrect, by the way. For the sake of other users, I will repost the entire text here. Give this to a child you… er, on second thought, keep this far away from children.

Far away! They are to Pedobear what Winnie the Pooh is to honey, and try not to read into that analogy too deeply.

Pedobear earns our 'seal of approval,' as long as he stays away from playgrounds and middle school science fairs. I'm going to craft a few sentences, though nothing substantive yet , about Pedobear and insert them into the article.

I will lay out the sentences in here first, and post them tomorrow. Since this article includes citations of such notable scientific journals as "Gawker," I do believe this link is up to snuff as well.

It holds just as much weight as your claims, which have all been baseless and without a solid, verifiable, or reliable source.

Keep digging. This is going up.

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Hi everybody! If you have stumbled across this site chances are you already know me, but let's do a little intro anyway.

I'm Scratch and for the last few years I have been producing an online adult web-comic called Manaworldcomics , where I have had the pleasure of working with some crazy talented artists.

Usually the comics that we've created have had to be hidden behind a paywall, because, let's face it, we all have bills to pay.

But, I have a dream to increase production, to deliver more smutty content for everyone to enjoy, AND, to keep supporting the artists involved with Manaworldcomics and NEW upcoming projects in the works.

Why Support? Starting in there have been some big changes in my life and I want to get back to my comics and art even more.

So, that's just what I'm doing! CP is just an acronym for child porn. It's used outside of 4chan. It's hard to cite something that doesn't exist, and is merely based on hearsay and in-passing Yes, we know the occasional child pornography exists on 4chan in rare occasions I'd note at least in the article that 'CP' is taken with a silly tone, a kind of "everyone wants it, no one can post it" vibe, leading to threads like "POST CP" - followed by people posting pictures of Captain Picard, or Cargo Pants, things with the initials CP.

I haven't found a source for that yet. It's used across much of the Internet. Whether or not child pornography is notable to 4chan is another matter.

Penneth talk , 5 August UTC As we said above, it's unlikely reliable sources would want to write about a pedophilic bear. Can you imagine seeing a dad out with his kids wearing a Pedobear t-shirt?

I could make a picture of a dog and call it "rapedog", but it means nothing. If you have a personal vendetta against 4chan, so be it. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't let it influence your perception of fact.

A true, filthy pedophile will go to much worse places to do his or her deed. Why not mention 7chan, then? Apparently that's known to be hardly moderated at all, and a "breeding ground for CP" Because 4chan is more popular.

Pedobear is a symbol of pedophilia on 4chan. It is posted with actual child porn. I have already stated that I have no vendetta against 4chan.

I'm just sayin', there's far more to it than lolcats and rickrolling. It's bursting with hard-core gore, pornography, some of it kiddie, and much else that is sordid.

Also, I googled pedobear t-shirts and got 25, results. Google is not a meter of how popular something is. The joke is the mere aspect of CP, and the humor around it captain picard, colored pencils, etc Sure, there are occasions when it does Oftentimes it's a single person in a single thread posting his shameful "cp folder" while others comment wildly about it.

If one person wants to run and capitalize on the internet joke because there's a following of 4chan users Not following of pedophiles, don't mistake that , then more power to them.

Currently we "sort of" still live in a capitalist society, so there's nothing wrong with that. You're wrong. The pedobear cartoon is often posted alongside child pornography.

Just to repeat that: you're wrong and the pedobear cartoon is often posted alongside child pornography.

We definitely do live in a capitalist society. It is in the process of commodifying children for sex. If you can somehow prove from a "random" message board that "pedobear" is posted more often in the unbelievably rare "cp" threads than it is elsewhere, I will gladly bow out of this debate.

I rarely see CP. Your argument has shifted. Before you said that Pedobear is purely an ironic, jocular symbol. Now you're admitting that it is posted in CP threads, but that the number of times it is used jokingly far outweighs the number of times it accompanies kiddie porn.

For my part, I have never claimed that Pedobear is posted the majority of time in kiddie porn threads. I've simply said that it is often posted in such threads.

I believe I have won this debate because you have come around to admitting my central claim: that Pedobear is indeed posted in CP threads on 4chan.

As soon as you have discovered an algorithm that can track the thousands of threads on 4chan and the quantity and nature of pedobear postings, I don't believe your above request for proof is feasible.

This debate about Pedobear doesn't even touch on the fact that 4chan is extremely racist, that it is a place for posting random people's phone numbers so that they can be harassed, etc.

Should every one of them be mentioned as well? Certainly, under your logic, they should. There is no sense in calling attention to a single "meme" simply because of it's name.

You should also mention the "Success kid" and "Chris Hansen" meme, as well, since they both have a link to child pornography. Why not "Socially awkward penguin" and various "Pokedads"?

I've seen some of those with CP humor in them. Why not "Boxxy", "Courage Wolf", etc? I could go on and on.

If you want to mention Pedobear and make the false comment that it is " one of the most popular meme s ", you damn well better come up with some reliable and solid sources, of which you've failed to do.

You'd be better off making a blog and spreading your propaganda there. CP exists. Pedobear exists.

Neither exist because of the other. Which came first, do you know? Pedobear could have been created as a concept, an idea Re: Racism - What does that have to do with this topic?

Are you reaching for more ammo to try and back up your arguement? Strawman does NOT work here. Ever read the intro to it? The part where only an idiot would take anything posted there as fact?

I've said that it's posted in CP threads. Amazingly, you have admitted this and you're still arguing. Yes, there are hundreds of memes, but pedobear was invented on 4chan and it is being widely merchandised ; every attempt I've made to mention it on Wikipedia has been censored.

Pedobear is the most germane to those threads. It's a hard-core place, and the Wikipedia article doesn't reflect that.

You have already admitted that pedobear is posted in CP threads, so I don't know what we're discussing.

Funnily enough, just for stating the facts about Pedobear and providing a citation, I have been threatened with a ban by someone named the King.

It is not my job to police the Internet, but neither is it your job to police Wikipedia. For now, I will not repost any mention of Pedobear in the article, for it would be futile, but I would like it to be noted by Wikipedia users that I have been censored.

It is linked to by www. You continue to try and pass off falsehoods as facts. This is your opinion, and it cannot be cited as fact.

If the article doesn't have a piece of "hard-core" feel to it, you aren't obligated to seek out random bits of information that aren't true.

Pedobear is posted in CP threads less than it's posted in any other thread, that's the point. I don't get paid for that job, but I'd like for people to not be misinformed.

Yep, your non-facts sure are being censored, as they should be. Here you go. Out of hundreds of millions of websites on the Internet, pedobear.

It's linked to by boyloverlinks. You have conceded that it's posted in 4chan's CP threads. So what are we debating?

And where is the 'joke' when a drooling or panting pedobear is posted in a thread with actual child pornography?

Thank you for admitting that pedobear is occasionally posted in such CP threads. Thanks also for admitting that I'm being censored.

You have still not shown where I was misinformed or false, but you have happily and brashly demonstrated that you are a censor.

You said: "Pedobear is posted in CP threads less than it's posted in any other thread, that's the point. There are lots of popular memes on 4chan.

I would venture to guess that some are posted far more than Pedobear. And just as a meme about a cartoon dog would be linked to by a dog-lover website, Pedobear probably attracts some less-than-reputable fans.

MOST of the time that it is posted, it is not in a "CP" thread, or causing 4chan to in your words "basically mainstream internet pedophilia.

Then, your comment: " You're claiming it has reached such a popularity that it is an "unofficial emblem" of a random message board is silly!

I'll play your game: Pedobear - k results on Google. Boxxy - 1. Courage Dog - 1. Any "results" you provide are flawed, as much as mine will be using your methods.

Why would the news report on something they can't prove? Damn, got me there, they do it every day You're jumping to so many conclusions.

And no, I have no solid proof, it's impossible to prove. More of a common sense thing that any visitor of 4chan would come up with.

Your comments also lead me to believe you've never even visitted 4chan. Do you even know what Pedobear is based off of?

It's real, and of course, it's Japanese. I don't have the info on me, and I'm not going to take a chance on 4chan while I'm at work, but it's not something a user just drew up one day.

It has a backstory, and if one person threw out the name "pedobear" We're supposed to trust the "common sense thing" of a 4chan user. For the record, I've visited 4chan many times, notwithstanding your belief that I haven't.

A drooling pedobear? I said Pedobear is an unofficial emblem because it appears in one of 4chan's official banner ads.

If I was mistaken about the meaning of in b4 , I apologize. The fact remains that people on 4chan boast of getting to the CP before it's deleted.

To reiterate, you've conceded pedobear is posted with actual child pornography on 4chan. Is that worth noting on Wikipedia? Finally, I think it's fair to say 4chan is helping mainstream internet pedophilia when pedobear is printed on t-shirts at a factory and apparently sold to interested boy lovers.

Seeing where it is and where it isn't. Seeing it is the only proof anyone has, and if you truly think I'm wrong, then please help me out.

Rather than rehash what I say three times now and consider the arguement over, please prove what I say is wrong?

Pedobear is posted more often in non-CP threads than in CP threads - I am willing to stand by that as a fact, but I cannot provide proof because it's impossible to do in writing, and a "random" board is impossible to cite.

Again, show me where I'm wrong. Also, congrats for showng 2 out of 2 billion renditions of a single image. I could photoshop a picture of a US Senator having relations with a dog As much as one person's rendition of a single image, as you so kindly linked to.

Site rankings are meaningless, and I responded with two examples of where they don't apply, so yes, I did respond. Again, it appears on a banner - Along with tons of other memes.

Are you seeing my point yet? You are shining this light on a single meme without considering the millions of other ones.

I didn't "concede" anything. It's posted with CP just like a picture of a dog, a horse, or a picture of you may be posted with CP. It's irrelevant!

Captain Picard is probably posted with it, too! Concluding that Pedobear is one of the most popular memes on a random message board will require verifiability by providing reliable sources , of which will be immediately disputed as I have done that the notability is worthy of being posted.

Even mentioning it in passing as I suggested earlier would be silly as this is not a repository for every meme in existence, no matter how many t-shirts are made.

Let me. A few posts ago you quoted me about pedobear and said this: "'It is posted with actual child porn' - False. Subsequently you have admitted that pedobear appears in child pornography threads.

You've also said that I've never visited 4chan. That's false. I was on there yesterday, and I have been on many times.

You questioned whether there was a drooling or panting pedobear. I furnished you with examples of both. You said, "site ranking are meaningless.

This debate is over because you have already conceded my central point. Pedobear is posted in child pornography threads. Though you denied it at first, you and I now agree on this point.

Penneth talk , 10 August UTC You can twist my words all you want to fit your point, but you're still wrong.

I said it appears in CP threads just like any other meme or image. It appears, just as Boxxy appears, just as Courage Dog appears. It's not necessarily linked to CP threads, but it appears in them just like any other image.

Your image examples were just the worst examples you could think of to fit your "negative image of pedobear" arguement.

Most images are of Pedobear "running" in a certain direction. What you provide doesn't matter, because like I said, there are thousands of versions of any picture you can bring up.

Like I said before, I can modify a picture to look like whatever I want, but it holds no weight to the arguement, because they are just at the whim of a single person's creativity.

I conceded nothing, because the fact that pedobear appears in CP threads means nothing because there's no proof or citation or source saying that it is exclusive to CP threads.

I quoted you verbatim! The appearance of a pedophilic bear in pedophilic image threads is noteworthy. I did not modify any picture. Pedobear is commonly found on 4chan drooling.

It doesn't have to be exclusive to CP threads to be noteworthy. I am finished with you. You cannot cite or prove the notability of a single meme, and claim it has a significant meaning.

There are far more controversial memes that exist, but you fail to acknowledge their existence, because all you wish to focus on is this single one.

Pedobear is an image, and is used in ways far beyond "CP threads", and you fail to see that. A "know your meme" website as a citation does not carry notability or reason, and will likely be removed.

The intentions of putting it in the article, too, carry little to no notability, and absolutely no verifiability. You wish to spread false information, so be it, but you know the rules of Wikipedia.

Your internet "White Knight" attitude of "I'm finished with you" says a lot about your character and your unwillingness to address the facts and see the other side.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC Debate aside, I would like to introduce a sentence in the introductory paragraph that reads: "Pedobear is a popular meme on 4chan.

Again, bring up every single controversial "meme" if you plan to add that line. Shii tock , 11 August UTC As has been said before, there are no mainstream sources on Pedobear because nobody is brave enough to mention it.

I will keep searching. Your comments are dripping with a conflict of interest! Again, just because you WANT something to be true, doesn't mean that it is!

You're trying to use images posted by 'anonymous and random people' as a justification? There's no way to prove that you aren't the one posting those images.

Plausible deniability, and your personal conflict of interest has an effect on everything you say. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC There is no way I could've posted all of those pictures because 4chan has flood control.

Moderators, please note that this individual has already suspected me of never having been to 4chan. Now this individual is alleging that I am on 4chan posting dozens of pictures of Pedobear, pornography and gore simply to fabricate a case.

I'm getting tired of these accusations, let alone of responding to them. For now, it's off to work.

With no source, you don't have a leg to stand on. Pedobear isn't going into the article, and neither are Advice Dog, Happy Negro, or anything else you can name that haven't been reported on , regardless of whatever notability YOU have ascribed to them.

Of course it exists. But there is no source of notability when compared to any other meme. There is no way to prove that you have not posted those images on your own, or people you know posting them on your behalf.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC 4chan has flood control and in any case I have not posted a single one of them. It is paranoid to suggest that I've rounded up my friends to post extremely violent and sexual images on that board so as to prove an esoteric point on a Wikipedia forum.

Your arguments are becoming flimsier and flimsier. It is unverifiable. You know this. If you really want to make that your goal, be sure to collect statistics for every other popular meme, where they are, and how many more of them there are than Pedobear.

Either way, 4chan is not a reliable source of statistics, as you cannot possibly see every thread created or every post made, or refer back to it, or prove it's verifiability, or prove it is not Original Research, or provide more sources to it's validity, or provide a reason that Pedobear is notable enough to deserve insertion to the article with the biased undertone of CP.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC So you say I should go on 4chan and collect statistic on every possible meme which is impossible! And then you say that statistics about 4chan are invalid anyway.

Semantics - See below on why you're out of line on this comment as well. No one denied Pedobear's existence. Stay on topic.

By your current logic, there needs to be inclusion of every other meme that exists and is proven to exist outside of 4chan.

And I don't mean they don't mention it as Pedobear's birthplace. They don't mention it at all. It is notable because it has appeared in a Pat Buchanan column with a picture of Obama.

Again, one person's opinion. Journalists will reach for whatever they can to make a "story", and if I photoshop a picture of your president with Courage Dog, and it gets posted on the internet, that doesn't make it notable.

Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC It is notable because a former Republican presidential candidate and syndicated columnist, for no apparent reason, posted an image of Obama with pedobear in a column.

This was mentioned in Wonkette, whose related blog, Gawker, is cited in this Wikipedia entry. Someone named King maintains that this is proof of nothing because the Wonkette links don't mention 4chan, but it is a common sense fact that 4chan is the main "romping ground" for the pedobear meme.

In any case, since I'm a journalist myself, I will just have to write a national article on Pedobear's presence on 4chan.

You're good at that. That line was referring directly to your comment: "You said: "Pedobear is posted in CP threads less than it's posted in any other thread, that's the point.

I simply wanted you, personally, to go there and watch and see how wrong you are. So, when you're done bringing back your weeklong data, please prove that most Pedobear images were shown in CP threads.

Sources, citations, verifiable information, etc. You can provide none of that. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC "I simply wanted you, personally, to go there and watch and see how wrong you are.

So how exactly did I find out how wrong I am? We're not stopping you from attempting to legitimately add Pedobear to this article.

We're stopping you from adding it in spite of wikipedia policy and the inclusion guidelines. The real absurdity is in people demanding sources from 4chan, then ruling out 4chan as a source.

It is true. I certainly hope you aren't claiming I said that. Gpia7r talk , 11 August UTC Since the above quote was not signed as per the rules, and since it contains numerous caps locked sentences, which is your specialty, I did assume it was you.

But I apologize if it wasn't. Here's the truth: Pedobear is a meme, one of thousands. It's mere existence does not prove to be notable enough for inclusion, nor is it "mainstreaming internet pedophelia".

Unfortunately, 4chan is not a verifiable or reliable source to assertain any solid information on the cause, existence, or result of the Pedobear cartoon.

The inclusion to the article is difficult because, while it's notability is suspect, doing so would set a precidence for including other memes that may carry even stronger "controversy".

Can we at least agree on this? Is this the prelude to a ban? I will not agree with you about "precidence" [sic]. And the "mainstreaming Internet pedophilia" comment is moot because I never said such a thing in the Wikipedia article, where I merely stated that Pedobear is a popular meme on 4chan true: it's in the official banner ads, unlike any other meme and that it is posted in CP threads true: you yourself agree.

Also, I will reiterate my question to you, starting with a quote from you. Stating that you mentioning the rule of signing comments is hypocritical.

You said it in your comments above, and it is false. You tried to reinforce your claim about Pedobear with "4chan is extremely popular worldwide, but no one wants to touch the fact that it basically is mainstreaming internet pedophilia.

I said numerous times that it is not exclusive to CP threads, nor is it the only thing posted. There may have been CP threads that didn't have a single Pedobear image!

You don't know this, I don't know this, it's absolutely unverifiable. Courage dog is posted in CP threads, we need to include an article about that, too.

Oh, and every single other image ever that has been in a CP thread. Pedobear is a meme, meme's are in 4chan and numerous other raunchy websites , so of course you're going to see them on 4chan.

Want a medal or cookie or some sort of pat on the back? How does that make it worth including? Again, I ask, does that mean every other meme I see on 4chan should be included?

It's all over that thread. Though you can dispute the credibility of the "Know Your Meme" itself, the information contained there is accurate.

Pedobear is based on a Japanese bear called Kuma, a picture of which is available at the Know Your Meme link. No way to prove that at all.

Could have been created at 2chan, ebaums, or some random guy in their basement. Isn't it enough to show that it is a widely disseminated meme on 4chan?

Anyone who don't see this is blind. Also, it should be mentioned the vast amount of CP that is posted at midnight on B. And 4chan isn't legit either because But the continual and frequent posting of pedobear on 4chan, including in threads that I have documented, is not a common sense connection between 4chan and Pedobear.

Makes sense, thanks. The fact that it's a meme is irrelevent, because it's only one meme out of thousands. As King says, your only go-to source isn't a valid source.

Your intent to add this to the article is very strong - What's the reason? What are you trying to prove? If there was some actual informative and notable point to saying that Pedobear is a meme on 4chan and other websites , without mentioning the hundreds and thousands of other memes

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